Post by fastwalker on Jul 27, 2005 9:05:00 GMT -5
Ah the theories abound…..a reply…fwiw..
An interesting speculation (from theorium no doubt)…It kind of reminds me of a story I once heard……that goes like this…..
“I have a friend to tells me at work one day that he keeps a dragon in his garage. He can tell I'm dubious, so he offers to show it to me. I'll accept anything with ample evidence, so I accede and agree to have the dragon shown to me, and vice versa... and hopefully not toasted like a marshmallow
.
Upon entering the garage my friend says, "There... that's all the proof you need." Looking around, however, I see only a disorganized assortment of tools and a puddle of toxic antifreeze on the floor.
"I'm sorry," I respond, "but I don't see any dragon here."
"Oh, well I forgot. He's an INVISIBLE dragon."
"I see, or that is, I don't see." Always prepared, I whip out an electronically enhanced pair of glasses. "Let's see if I can detect his heat in the infrared spectrum. Hmm... no, I can't see even normal body temperature, let alone the heat from an invisible fiery breath."
"Oh, that's because this dragon doesn't give off heat. Reptiles are cold blooded, you know.... And his fire is room temperature."
At this response I remove the glasses and grab a can of oil from my friend's work-bench. I puncture a hole in the top and spread it evenly across the entire floor. After watching for a moment, I say, "I don't see any foot-prints."
"Didn't you know dragons can fly? He's hovering in the air right now."
Quickly I open the garage door, run outside, get into my car, and drive it into the garage. After stepping out of the car I say, "Is he still here?"
"Oh, yes."
"How can he fit in here with the car?"
"Well," my friend says, "this dragon is non corporal. He is made of a material that does not conflict with normal matter, and he can therefore exist simultaneously in the same space with another object."
"Do you have any proof at all to show me that indicates the existence of this dragon?"
"Well, no. You just have to take it on faith. *I* know the dragon exists because... well, I just know!"
At this point I would have to sigh and go have a beer with Zoinkers, Franko and Nimrod….lol.
Guys, IMHO this all comes back to what I’ve stated in my last couple of posts…
"If you have two theories which both explain the observed facts then you should use the simplest until more evidence comes along" After all, the simplest explanation for some phenomenon is more likely to be accurate than a more complicated explanation."
I have tried to accept various theories, but those stubborn facts just keep getting in the way, which basically says and reinforces for me the notion that any explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be the correct one…lol."
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." Albert Einstein
Also another quote from a man I thought had a true grasp on reality….
"If we can't think for ourselves, if we're unwilling to question authority, then we're just putty in the hands of those in power. But if the citizens are educated and form their own opinions, then those in power work for us. In every country, we should be teaching our children the scientific method and the reasons for a Bill of Rights. With it comes a certain decency, humility and community spirit. In the demon-haunted world that we inhabit by virtue of being human, this may be all that stands between us and the enveloping darkness."…Carl Sagan
Guys, people have a tendency to believe in the weird things because of wishful thinking and sadly, continue to believe in those things despite contrary evidence because they are unwilling to alter preconceived notions. The reasons for their unwillingness to shift paradigms are many.
People don't want to admit they are wrong. They sometimes want something comfortable rather than something true (even if they play a game of pretend by calling their fantasies and wishes true). Group think plays a major role in this activity. Very often theories are propagated through 'feedback loops'
Perhaps the most interesting observation once can make regarding theories is with regard to the similarity in the flawed methodology used. The methodology includes these elements for getting a theory out, contrary to the “known facts.”
1. They concentrate on the weakest, often unsupported points, while rarely saying anything definitive about their own position.
2. They exploit errors made by the facts , by assuming those making an opposing arguments, are wrong since no one has made their theory fit the facts, implying that because a few of their opponents' conclusions were wrong, all of their opponents' conclusions must be wrong.
3. They use quotations, usually taken out of context to buttress their own position.
4. They mistake genuine, honest debates between posters about certain (facts) points within a field for a dispute about the existence of the entire field.
5. They focus on what is not known and ignore what is known, emphasize data that fit and discount data that do not fit.
Of course this is just my theory….lol
fw
An interesting speculation (from theorium no doubt)…It kind of reminds me of a story I once heard……that goes like this…..
“I have a friend to tells me at work one day that he keeps a dragon in his garage. He can tell I'm dubious, so he offers to show it to me. I'll accept anything with ample evidence, so I accede and agree to have the dragon shown to me, and vice versa... and hopefully not toasted like a marshmallow
.
Upon entering the garage my friend says, "There... that's all the proof you need." Looking around, however, I see only a disorganized assortment of tools and a puddle of toxic antifreeze on the floor.
"I'm sorry," I respond, "but I don't see any dragon here."
"Oh, well I forgot. He's an INVISIBLE dragon."
"I see, or that is, I don't see." Always prepared, I whip out an electronically enhanced pair of glasses. "Let's see if I can detect his heat in the infrared spectrum. Hmm... no, I can't see even normal body temperature, let alone the heat from an invisible fiery breath."
"Oh, that's because this dragon doesn't give off heat. Reptiles are cold blooded, you know.... And his fire is room temperature."
At this response I remove the glasses and grab a can of oil from my friend's work-bench. I puncture a hole in the top and spread it evenly across the entire floor. After watching for a moment, I say, "I don't see any foot-prints."
"Didn't you know dragons can fly? He's hovering in the air right now."
Quickly I open the garage door, run outside, get into my car, and drive it into the garage. After stepping out of the car I say, "Is he still here?"
"Oh, yes."
"How can he fit in here with the car?"
"Well," my friend says, "this dragon is non corporal. He is made of a material that does not conflict with normal matter, and he can therefore exist simultaneously in the same space with another object."
"Do you have any proof at all to show me that indicates the existence of this dragon?"
"Well, no. You just have to take it on faith. *I* know the dragon exists because... well, I just know!"
At this point I would have to sigh and go have a beer with Zoinkers, Franko and Nimrod….lol.
Guys, IMHO this all comes back to what I’ve stated in my last couple of posts…
"If you have two theories which both explain the observed facts then you should use the simplest until more evidence comes along" After all, the simplest explanation for some phenomenon is more likely to be accurate than a more complicated explanation."
I have tried to accept various theories, but those stubborn facts just keep getting in the way, which basically says and reinforces for me the notion that any explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be the correct one…lol."
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." Albert Einstein
Also another quote from a man I thought had a true grasp on reality….
"If we can't think for ourselves, if we're unwilling to question authority, then we're just putty in the hands of those in power. But if the citizens are educated and form their own opinions, then those in power work for us. In every country, we should be teaching our children the scientific method and the reasons for a Bill of Rights. With it comes a certain decency, humility and community spirit. In the demon-haunted world that we inhabit by virtue of being human, this may be all that stands between us and the enveloping darkness."…Carl Sagan
Guys, people have a tendency to believe in the weird things because of wishful thinking and sadly, continue to believe in those things despite contrary evidence because they are unwilling to alter preconceived notions. The reasons for their unwillingness to shift paradigms are many.
People don't want to admit they are wrong. They sometimes want something comfortable rather than something true (even if they play a game of pretend by calling their fantasies and wishes true). Group think plays a major role in this activity. Very often theories are propagated through 'feedback loops'
Perhaps the most interesting observation once can make regarding theories is with regard to the similarity in the flawed methodology used. The methodology includes these elements for getting a theory out, contrary to the “known facts.”
1. They concentrate on the weakest, often unsupported points, while rarely saying anything definitive about their own position.
2. They exploit errors made by the facts , by assuming those making an opposing arguments, are wrong since no one has made their theory fit the facts, implying that because a few of their opponents' conclusions were wrong, all of their opponents' conclusions must be wrong.
3. They use quotations, usually taken out of context to buttress their own position.
4. They mistake genuine, honest debates between posters about certain (facts) points within a field for a dispute about the existence of the entire field.
5. They focus on what is not known and ignore what is known, emphasize data that fit and discount data that do not fit.
Of course this is just my theory….lol
fw
